Stevan Harnad, University of Southampton, June 28, 1999
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999, J.W.T.Smith wrote:
> This entire debate seems to have become hung up on whether or not the Los
> Alamos Archive model is applicable to e-publishing or e-archiving in other
> subject areas (especially biomed). This has obscured the fact it is
> perfectly possible to believe, as I do, that the Los Alamos Archive model
> is not the way to go for many subjects yet also believe in a model where
> the role of current journals is reduced to that of quality control only.
>
> My objection to the Los Alamos Archive model is that it is centralised and
> such a model can easily degenerate into a monopoly.
A monopoly of what PRODUCT, on behalf of what PROVIDER relative to what
MARKET? For Los Alamos is in the (government-supported) "business" of
making it possible for authors to give away reports of their own
scientific research away to one and all for free.
And what do you mean "centralised"? Los Alamos is open to one and all,
reader and author alike, the world over; it is mirrored in 15
countries, cached in who knows how many other places and ways,
incorporated into further Gateways such as NCSTRL and Spires, and there
integrated with other archives. Anyone else can make copies of the
archive too (that's part of what make the "product" free entails), and
the authors who self-archive in it are encouraged to archive their
papers elsewhere too, if they wish, including in their own
institutional servers, which can then be gathered together as another
backup of the "central" archive.
http://xxx.soton.ac.uk/servers.html
http://ncstrl.cs.cornell.edu/
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/spires/about_spireshep.htmll
As I have noted before, this central/distributed issue is a red
herring, based in part on papyrocentric thinking (we are in reality
talking about a distributed virtual library where locus has little
meaning) and in part on proprietary thinking, based on the reader-end,
access-blockage trade model (whereas we are talking about self-archiving
facility in which authors distribute their own "products" for free).
This has all been discussed in:
http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/september-forum.html
See:
HTTP://AMSCI-FORUM.AMSCI.ORG/scripts/wa.exe?A1=ind99&L=september-forum&F=lf&O=T&H=0&D=0&T=1#5
> You asserted in a
> recent note (27 June) that there was no intention that any archive become
> a 'mega-journal'. However if it becomes the place where academics in a
> given subject expect to find relevant articles it will have become just
> that and it will become *necessary* for authors to place their work there.
Nothing of the sort! The journal is the quality controller and
certifier. There will continue to be the full spectrum and hierarchy of
journals, varying in quality and impact factor, each with its own
distinctive "brand name." In the virtual archive, this will be
designated by tags, so you can restrict your search engine to the
refereed literature appearing in, say, American Physical Society
journals only, if you wish.
An Author Archive is hence, as I said, not a Mega-Journal: It is an
archive, in which the entire refereed journal literature (as well us the
unrefereed preprint literature) is available for free for all.
Now who is monopolizing what for whom?
> Although I have long argued, e.g.,
> http://www.ukc.ac.uk/library/papers/jwts/d-journal.htm
> for the separation of the quality control role of the traditional journal
> from the publication role I have always advocated a 'distributed' model
> over a 'centralised' model for 'publication/archiving'. This at least
> escapes the possibility of a monopoly by the operators of the central
> archive. It also echoes the argument in Stuart Weibel's earlier note (11
> June) about the redundncy inherent in the multiple copies of
> books/journals in the current paper library model. That model may be
> inefficient (too many duplicates are kept) but its robustness is clear.
Redundancy is a non-problem; we know all about backups, mirrors,
distributedness, and even distributed coding. It is a waste of time to
keep dwelling on these solved problems. Moreover, they have nothing to do
with the "monopoly" issue, which is likewise a red herring.
Stop thinking in terms of a reader-end "product," with competition
among access-blockers, and think instead in terms of a platform for
author-end "freebies," with collaboration among access-providers, and
things will come into better focus. This is the refereed journal
literature, not trade books or magazines.
> we should take from past publishing models that which is
> clearly of value like peer review (and maybe distributed archiving?) but
> discard that which is clearly constraining (due probably to some feature
> of the underlying medium of the old model) like the linking of quality
> control and distribution.
Correct, but then what is all this needless fuss about centralisation
and monopoly?
> Summary: It is possible to escape the problems of the 'trade model' of
> current academic publishing without running headlong into the possibly
> equally constraining model of a monopolistic central archive.
Yes. Change the vocabulary.
Stevan Harnad
Professor of Cognitive Science
Department of Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Highfield, Southampton
UNITED KINGDOM
http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/
http://www.princeton.edu/~harnad/
ftp://ftp.princeton.edu/pub/harnad/
Jamie Cunliffe, June 28, 1999
This subject interests me a great deal.
Why? Well, I have been touting around a substantial idea for more than 10
years now. Admittedly, the idea has evolved and blossomed over the last 4
years but it was substantially sound in 1984 (see web site below). Now, as
long as science has been practiced, substantial insights that overturn
current beliefs have traditionally been (r)ejected by the "in situ"
cognoscenti. "Bacons's idols" - those hidden assumptions that trip up
scientific progress - are eventually noticed and they lead to major
(Kuhnian) revolutions in their respective field. It is here that the current
system of peer reviewed, selective publishing becomes a major impediment to
progress and, what is more, to a dilution of credit. Should I prove right,
then the very system that has deemed it appropriate to (r)eject these ideas
and suppress them has simply added dynamite to the conceptual explosion that
will eventually ensue.
Physics (a subject where "hidden assumptions" are probably easier to
identify than in biology, where there are so many parameters that it is
difficult to tie them all down with certainty) has long held a more open
attitude to the airing of ideas. But biology and medicine are subjects where
there seems to be a feeling that all there is left to do is fill in the
blanks with an accelerating stampede into reductionism. The only journal to
welcome "wild ideas" is Medical Hypotheses and this has, so far, not been
considered in the least a "prestigious" journal.
The two main results of the current process is that there is
1) much publication of "conventional" science, particularly when it comes
from the established "cognoscenti".
2) much suppression of "unconventional" science, particularly when it comes
from outsiders.
Now the first is a safe bet and, more often than not, it is justified. But
the second runs the risk of being asleep when - or simply ignorant of - a
substantial new perception when it comes along. Any system of publishing
that overcomes this impasse should be welcomed. And any system that
overcomes the ludicrous cost of some articles ($30 I was asked for the other
day) must also be welcomed. Science, scientists and understanding are the
real loosers in this scenario - particularly when only a fraction of those
articles with interesting words in the title uncover a truly exciting paper.
Should this "revolution" prove to be as dramatic as I suspect then
"conventional" science needs to look hard and long at itself and the methods
by which it should encourage the emergence of radically fresh perceptions.
In summary, I am all for E-Biomed. The conventional journals will be able to
amplify and authenticate studies they agree with while the others are not
actively censored.
Jamie Cunliffe
Waterside Health Centre, Hythe, Southampton, UK
Home pages at: http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~greenprac/jamie.html
Eliot Bush, June 28, 1999
I think the database is a great idea. It would be an enormous
advantage to researchers to be able to get at anything in the literature
instantly. The technology exists to do this, and it would be silly not
to take advantage of it.There is no reason that a peer review process
isn't compatable with e-publishing. e-publishing is faster, and
cheaper. and it has the big advantage of simplicity. individual
researchers wouldn't have to bother with getting subscriptions from
individual journals if they wanted to read in their own office.
Most of the comments I have read are negative--I guess the scientific
community is pretty conservative--but this oposition seems to me to show
a lack of imagination.
Eliot Bush
Eduardo Salido, University of La Laguna, Spain, June 28, 1999
Dear Sir,
I think that your E-Biomed proposal would be of great help to many
scientist in second and third world countries, where availability to
printed journals is limited due to their high cost abroad. The World
Conference on Science and the Third World Academy of Sciences have
documented that the gap between the resources available to scientist in
the most developed countries and the rest is widening. NAS' Bruce
Alberts has presented the view that access to information via internet
could help to bring more third world researchers aboard in the quest for
scientific knowledge. I totally agree, and deeply believe that the NIH,
which has been behind examples of leadership and generosity such as
PubMed and the NCBI suite of databases, should lead also this effort to
make Science more available to all human beings.
Eduardo Salido
University of La Laguna, Spain